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Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
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PITT :: Blood & Bone :: Blood Bath
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Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
The formatting of this post will evolve over time as more information is added. Consider this a rough draft. Some Keeper tweaks are difficult to verify, such as changes to encumbrance. Though, many believe such tweaks to be ongoing, so it is harder to verify them, unlike the glaringly obvious weapon changes.
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Weapon Changes
Halberd - now punches into armor
Pole Axe - now punches into armor
War Hammer - now punches into armor
Scythe - now sweeping
Hammer - now punches into armor
Net - entanglements no longer activate the "you are on the ground" trigger
Francisca - can now be thrown.
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
GLADIATOR's francisca flies way wide, sparing his foe!
It appears that the spear family of weapons now get the special slash attack line when using the slash fighting style.
GLADIATOR delivers an upward stroke pole axe dancing in wild patterns
GLADIATOR guides an attack into FIGHTER's right kidney
GLADIATOR strikes home with an aimed attack
He draws back and slashes across his opponent's spine!
GLADIATOR's pole axe punches into FIGHTER's armor!
Grievous damage is inflicted!
Dogs and cats rain from the stands!
And it stacks with charge!!!
GLADIATOR charges FIGHTER with his pole axe!
GLADIATOR feigns an attack to get past FIGHTER's military pick!
GLADIATOR accurately swings for FIGHTER's spine with his pole axe
GLADIATOR takes aim, and hits home!
He draws back and slashes across his opponent's belly!
The blow rearranges anatomy!
FIGHTER has been permanently injured in the abdomen!!!
Game Mechanics
A gladiator can now bash through a foe's parry attempt with fighting styles other than bash.
GLADIATOR crashes down with his WEAPON and bashes through his foe's mighty parry attempt
Disarm
Keeper did a major overhaul of disarm, so it is no longer a separate attempt (and thus no more failed attempts, either). Now it looks more like an accidental disarm than a purposeful one. Here are Keeper's words on the topic:
On or around turn 940, I made a change to disarm mechanics that eliminated the prior text "<attacker> attempts to disarm <defender>'s weapon!", and it's success or failure result text.
I made this change deliberately to address a balance issue with the existing (and original) disarm mechanic. The intent of the change was to significantly strengthen the disarm ability, not to eliminate or weaken it.
Prior to turn 940, statistical analysis showed that, the more trains a warrior acquired in Disarm, the worse they performed (in win ratio) against the broad field of opponent types. Although they did disarm their opponents considerably more with more trains, their overall W/L ratio went down the more trains in Disarm they received. The reason is that Disarm is special in that it does not deal damage when it succeeds. That same attack attempt could otherwise (without Disarm trains) have been used to hit normally for full damage, or possibly to use another special that also deals damage (Sweep, Shield Rush, Bash-through, etc). It is complex and somewhat counter-intuitive, but the net statistical outcome was that expending an attack to simply disarm an opponent is not as effective for overall W/L as just attacking them normally. Obviously, this was not the desired effect of the Disarm skill - it was meant to be additive to any abilities the warrior already had, not an increasing detriment against the bulk of the opponent field.
The fix was to make a Disarm attempts additive to a successful attack attempt. Disarm (the ability) has been moved to be additive with normal Primary and Secondary arm hits. Statistical analysis showed that this fix was successful - incremental Disarm trains now improve win percentage against the broad opponent base. So when you see "<defender>'s <weapon-name> is knocked from his grasp!!!", that is the fixed/new disarm ability. Yes, there always was a fixed chance to disarm (via impact) even with no Disarm trains, however now this effect increases significantly with additional trains in Disarm.
At some point in the future, I may extend the fight engine to support Disarm as a non-attack using ability. At that point I will be able to restore the old disarm text as well (which is not trigger-able at all now), but the mechanic above will likely always remain as a core part of disarm.
More info coming. I just quickly typed this up from memory.
---
Weapon Changes
Halberd - now punches into armor
Pole Axe - now punches into armor
War Hammer - now punches into armor
Scythe - now sweeping
Hammer - now punches into armor
Net - entanglements no longer activate the "you are on the ground" trigger
Francisca - can now be thrown.
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
GLADIATOR's francisca flies way wide, sparing his foe!
It appears that the spear family of weapons now get the special slash attack line when using the slash fighting style.
GLADIATOR delivers an upward stroke pole axe dancing in wild patterns
GLADIATOR guides an attack into FIGHTER's right kidney
GLADIATOR strikes home with an aimed attack
He draws back and slashes across his opponent's spine!
GLADIATOR's pole axe punches into FIGHTER's armor!
Grievous damage is inflicted!
Dogs and cats rain from the stands!
And it stacks with charge!!!
GLADIATOR charges FIGHTER with his pole axe!
GLADIATOR feigns an attack to get past FIGHTER's military pick!
GLADIATOR accurately swings for FIGHTER's spine with his pole axe
GLADIATOR takes aim, and hits home!
He draws back and slashes across his opponent's belly!
The blow rearranges anatomy!
FIGHTER has been permanently injured in the abdomen!!!
Game Mechanics
A gladiator can now bash through a foe's parry attempt with fighting styles other than bash.
GLADIATOR crashes down with his WEAPON and bashes through his foe's mighty parry attempt
Disarm
Keeper did a major overhaul of disarm, so it is no longer a separate attempt (and thus no more failed attempts, either). Now it looks more like an accidental disarm than a purposeful one. Here are Keeper's words on the topic:
On or around turn 940, I made a change to disarm mechanics that eliminated the prior text "<attacker> attempts to disarm <defender>'s weapon!", and it's success or failure result text.
I made this change deliberately to address a balance issue with the existing (and original) disarm mechanic. The intent of the change was to significantly strengthen the disarm ability, not to eliminate or weaken it.
Prior to turn 940, statistical analysis showed that, the more trains a warrior acquired in Disarm, the worse they performed (in win ratio) against the broad field of opponent types. Although they did disarm their opponents considerably more with more trains, their overall W/L ratio went down the more trains in Disarm they received. The reason is that Disarm is special in that it does not deal damage when it succeeds. That same attack attempt could otherwise (without Disarm trains) have been used to hit normally for full damage, or possibly to use another special that also deals damage (Sweep, Shield Rush, Bash-through, etc). It is complex and somewhat counter-intuitive, but the net statistical outcome was that expending an attack to simply disarm an opponent is not as effective for overall W/L as just attacking them normally. Obviously, this was not the desired effect of the Disarm skill - it was meant to be additive to any abilities the warrior already had, not an increasing detriment against the bulk of the opponent field.
The fix was to make a Disarm attempts additive to a successful attack attempt. Disarm (the ability) has been moved to be additive with normal Primary and Secondary arm hits. Statistical analysis showed that this fix was successful - incremental Disarm trains now improve win percentage against the broad opponent base. So when you see "<defender>'s <weapon-name> is knocked from his grasp!!!", that is the fixed/new disarm ability. Yes, there always was a fixed chance to disarm (via impact) even with no Disarm trains, however now this effect increases significantly with additional trains in Disarm.
At some point in the future, I may extend the fight engine to support Disarm as a non-attack using ability. At that point I will be able to restore the old disarm text as well (which is not trigger-able at all now), but the mechanic above will likely always remain as a core part of disarm.
More info coming. I just quickly typed this up from memory.
Last edited by Vic Vegas on Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:12 am; edited 5 times in total
Vic Vegas- Pit God
- Posts : 3881
Re: Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
Added halberds punching into armor in the Weapon Changes section.
GRAKK's halberd punches into SYMBIOTIC SLAUGHTER's headgear!
Thanks for the headache, GRAKK, but SYMBIOTIC SLAUGHTER appreciates the learning experience.
GRAKK's halberd punches into SYMBIOTIC SLAUGHTER's headgear!
Thanks for the headache, GRAKK, but SYMBIOTIC SLAUGHTER appreciates the learning experience.
Vic Vegas- Pit God
- Posts : 3881
Re: Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
I know there's more that needs to be added to this list, but I thought I'd bump this thread to the top, so the returning managers will notice.
Vic Vegas- Pit God
- Posts : 3881
Re: Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
Thank you to Klagrok, er Mr. Entrails, for providing an update on the lowly Francisca.
Franciscas can now be thrown!!!
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
GLADIATOR's francisca flies way wide, sparing his foe!
Maybe not the most thrilling example to post, but this is a fantastic development! I recall Dux arguing that all weapons should be throwable, some would just be better suited for it than others. So, why stop some dwarf from pitching his Tower Shield at a foe? That would seem to be an act of desperation, but if given the option, I'm sure some managers would take it.
Franciscas can now be thrown!!!
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
GLADIATOR's francisca flies way wide, sparing his foe!
Maybe not the most thrilling example to post, but this is a fantastic development! I recall Dux arguing that all weapons should be throwable, some would just be better suited for it than others. So, why stop some dwarf from pitching his Tower Shield at a foe? That would seem to be an act of desperation, but if given the option, I'm sure some managers would take it.
Vic Vegas- Pit God
- Posts : 3881
Klagrok likes this post
Re: Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
It is aimed toward his foe's left leg
His foe's armor absorbs the damage instead
GLADIATOR switches his backup francisca to his secondary hand!
GLADIATOR backs toward the center of the arena
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
The weapon darts toward his foe's chest
His foe's armor shields the warrior from harm
I actually ran my experiment correctly this turn. So, no skills in throw or francisca. The foe was wearing Scale Mail. Thanks for making francisca throws a go, Keeper!
It is aimed toward his foe's left leg
His foe's armor absorbs the damage instead
GLADIATOR switches his backup francisca to his secondary hand!
GLADIATOR backs toward the center of the arena
GLADIATOR quickly balances his francisca and throws!
The weapon darts toward his foe's chest
His foe's armor shields the warrior from harm
I actually ran my experiment correctly this turn. So, no skills in throw or francisca. The foe was wearing Scale Mail. Thanks for making francisca throws a go, Keeper!
Klagrok- Pit God
- Posts : 1407
Re: Keeper Tweaks (Verified)
One thing that I wish Keeper would address is that when you Monster a warrior, there still is either a stein or a splotch even when you mark your preferences as "Hide WLK."
Sleazee P Martinee- Pit God
- Posts : 1760
Vic Vegas likes this post
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PITT :: Blood & Bone :: Blood Bath
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